Media is going to town..

[Robadat]

Yeah, but the problem with a blanket statement is that you are implying the majority, which here is not the case.

This incident maybe, but there have been to many where that was not the case.

Kind of like saying all hyper kids have Attention deficit disorder, and doping them up, when all you need to do is pay attention to them.

In most of these incidents, people end up getting shot because they didn't comply with the cop's commands. Sometimes the shoots are justified, occasionally, they're not. The bad shoots end up being prosecuted as they should. It is wrong to lump them all together, each case should be accessed on it's own merits. From what I have seen, a lot of this instances occur due to two main reasons, disrespect and non-compliance with police commands, and/or poor tactical training of cops. Instead of rioting, people should be out there explaining to the public how they should react when challenged by police.

I have personally been stopped by cops six times in the last month because there's been reports of a drug dealer in my neighborhood who drives a car that fits the description of mine. All six times I was armed and not once did I give any of the cops a reason to fear for their safety. I was polite to all of them, advised them I was on the job, told them where on my person my weapon was, my shield and ID and where my drivers license was while keeping both of my hands in plain sight on the steering wheel of the car and asked them how they wanted to proceed. Never made any move that wasn't directed by the cop.

I never disregarded any command they issued to me or argued with them because I was stopped numerous times. I did go to the local precinct Saturday to talk to the commanding officer about the situation and was promised that my concerns and plate # would be passed along to the patrol officers so that they know my car is not the one they're looking for. Haven't been pulled over since.

 

[9andaWiggle]

In most of these incidents, people end up getting shot because they didn't comply with the cop's commands. Sometimes the shoots are justified, occasionally, they're not. The bad shoots end up being prosecuted as they should. It is wrong to lump them all together, each case should be accessed on it's own merits. From what I have seen, a lot of this instances occur due to two main reasons, disrespect and non-compliance with police commands, and/or poor tactical training of cops. Instead of rioting, people should be out there explaining to the public how they should react when challenged by police.

I have personally been stopped by cops six times in the last month because there's been reports of a drug dealer in my neighborhood who drives a car that fits the description of mine. All six times I was armed and not once did I give any of the cops a reason to fear for their safety. I was polite to all of them, advised them I was on the job, told them where on my person my weapon was, my shield and ID and where my drivers license was while keeping both of my hands in plain sight on the steering wheel of the car and asked them how they wanted to proceed. Never made any move that wasn't directed by the cop.

I never disregarded any command they issued to me or argued with them because I was stopped numerous times. I did go to the local precinct Saturday to talk to the commanding officer about the situation and was promised that my concerns and plate # would be passed along to the patrol officers so that they know my car is not the one they're looking for. Haven't been pulled over since.

Oh HELL NO! You can't let these power hungry, ego driven cops keep harassing you like this! If it were me, the second time I got stopped shit woulda got real! You gotta stand up to The Man and show him you ain't skeered, that you know your rights, and you're not going to tolerate his bullshit! This is 'Murica! I do what I want!

 

[livespive]

Yeah, but the problem is (and I know media is part of it) there are too many cases where the person is doing what they are supposed to do.

the guy FL with the autistic boy
the guy that was with his wife and kid
the guy at the gas station and was asking why was he being shot as he was being shot

The problem is there should almost be none of those.

If the powers that be were the types that listen, there would be no riots, but they don't listen.
They don't list when its time to get simple stuff done.

In most of these incidents, people end up getting shot because they didn't comply with the cop's commands. Sometimes the shoots are justified, occasionally, they're not. The bad shoots end up being prosecuted as they should. It is wrong to lump them all together, each case should be accessed on it's own merits. From what I have seen, a lot of this instances occur due to two main reasons, disrespect and non-compliance with police commands, and/or poor tactical training of cops. Instead of rioting, people should be out there explaining to the public how they should react when challenged by police.

I have personally been stopped by cops six times in the last month because there's been reports of a drug dealer in my neighborhood who drives a car that fits the description of mine. All six times I was armed and not once did I give any of the cops a reason to fear for their safety. I was polite to all of them, advised them I was on the job, told them where on my person my weapon was, my shield and ID and where my drivers license was while keeping both of my hands in plain sight on the steering wheel of the car and asked them how they wanted to proceed. Never made any move that wasn't directed by the cop.

I never disregarded any command they issued to me or argued with them because I was stopped numerous times. I did go to the local precinct Saturday to talk to the commanding officer about the situation and was promised that my concerns and plate # would be passed along to the patrol officers so that they know my car is not the one they're looking for. Haven't been pulled over since.

 

[livespive]

Yeah, I can do to my sheep what I want to.

Oh HELL NO! You can't let these power hungry, ego driven cops keep harassing you like this! If it were me, the second time I got stopped shit woulda got real! You gotta stand up to The Man and show him you ain't skeered, that you know your rights, and you're not going to tolerate his bullshit! This is 'Murica! I do what I want!

 

[Djarum300]

Officers stated that from his actions he appeared to be under the influence of drugs. That is reasonable suspicion to detain him.

But, and I can't say this often enough, when you are challenged by a cop for any reason, immediately comply with all orders given you. Do exactly as you are told, no more, no less. I am seeing more and more civilians arguing with and disobeying orders from POs in their encounters. This conduct needs to stop, it unnecessarily puts civilians and POs in dangerous situations where bad things can and do happen.

You have a problem with an officer's conduct during a stop, do exactly as told and file a complaint afterwards. It's simply not worth getting yourself killed over.

My understanding of Alabama law is that there has to be probable cause. Could police drum up some BS story? Happens all the time. I'm not saying that's what happened here. If I get pulled over at a check point, the police must have to have probable cause. I'm with in my legal rights to not obey. Even talked to an officer about it and he said I was correct. Most people don't know, so they comply and get caught.

 

[WAMO]

IF YOUR NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, NO REASON NOT TO COMPLY.

 

[livespive]

That's right, but the big question is how many cops know this?????

We choose to invoke that right, and the next thing you know the cop gets pissed and he shoots.

My understanding of Alabama law is that there has to be probable cause. Could police drum up some BS story? Happens all the time. I'm not saying that's what happened here. If I get pulled over at a check point, the police must have to have probable cause. I'm with in my legal rights to not obey. Even talked to an officer about it and he said I was correct. Most people don't know, so they comply and get caught.

 

[livespive]

Spoken like someone that is willing to give their rights away.

You must believe in the stop and frisk???

IF YOUR NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, NO REASON NOT TO COMPLY.

 

[REVerse °]

Spoken like someone that is willing to give their rights away.

You must believe in the stop and frisk???

Come on, dude... If the cop gives you orders to get on the ground- get on the ground. Don't be bull headed and act stupid. Just do it. Why is this so darn difficult for people?

 

[WAMO]

LIVE, MY POINT IS WHY GET INTO A CONFRONTATION WITH A COP JUST TO BE A DICK (BUT I HAVE DONE JUST THAT IN THE PAST MYSELF). COPS JOBS ARE GETTING HARDER EVERYDAY BECAUSE CRIMINALS KEEP DOING MORE VIOLENT STUPID SHIT. WHY WOULD ANY LAW ABIDDING CITIZEN WANT TO CREATE A SITUATION WITH COPS WHEN THEY DONT NEED TO. THE ONLY WAY I KNOW OF TO GET POLICE PROPERLY TRAINED, HAVE THEM PUT IN REAL LIFE AND DEATH SITUATIONS WHEN THEY ARE TRAINING. SHOOTING AT A GRAMAW, KID, POSTMAN OR CRIMINAL POSTERS AINT THE SAME AS REAL LIFE. THE ONLY REAL TRAINING THEY GET IS IN THE FIELD MIXING IT UP WITH REAL PEOPLE. NOT ONE OF US ON THIS SITE, EXCEPT ROB (MAYBE), HAS ANY IDEA WHAT WE WOULD DO UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES. WE ALL KNOW WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO, DOES NOT MEAN WE WOULD. AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, ME AND MY FAMILY DONT WORRY EVERYDAY WHEN I LEAVE THE HOUSE IF IT WILL BE MY LAST.

 

[Scolai]

I didn't read all 4 pages of this thread, so I'll chime in knowing that there is the possibility that what I am saying may have been covered before now.

There is a woeful issue in policing where training is concerned. First is in the hand-to-hand element of confronting a suspect. One of my dojo training partners is chief of police in a town about 90 minutes from us. He runs his own MA school in the area. He is holding FREE training for police to help cover the hand-to-hand element. One of my instructors drove down yesterday to help teach the class. He was astounded by the degree to which police have NOT been trained to manage aggressive threats. He played the role of an aggressive suspect being handcuffed; he said the only reason he didn't end up handcuffing the officer was because the officer threw the handcuffs across the room. Zero skills in this area for police.

Second is the level of training police receive with their weapons. Because so many of them have such little unconscious competence with their service weapons, they are too quick to shoot when a situation gets tense. Sure, some officers go to the range and shoot at static paper targets, but 1) they have to pay for the training themselves and 2) paper targets are no substitute for tactical shooting on an outdoor range. Any training that does cover simulated live situations is usually cost prohibitive.

I don't blame police. Their job is harder than the average citizen can begin to understand, then they have to deal with every decision they make being shredded in the public sphere.

So what happened in Tulsa? Did the officer overreact? Did she mistake the service weapon in her hand for her taser (it's happened before - in Tulsa)? Was her training insufficient to give her a degree of unconscious competence in this situation?

The likely answer is likely 'yes' to all of those questions.

 

[MI2AZ]

If the police are yelling at you to 'drop the gun' and you don't have one to drop, what happens next?

 

[WAMO]

HOLLAR FUCK YOU.

 

[Scolai]

If the police are yelling at you to 'drop the gun' and you don't have one to drop, what happens next?

You raise your hands with fingers spread wide open to show that your hands are empty.

 

[MI2AZ]

HOLLAR FUCK YOU.

Famous last words?

 

[WAMO]

IF YOU THINK YOUR GOING DOWN, GO DOWN BIG!

 

[MI2AZ]

IF YOU THINK YOUR GOING DOWN, GO DOWN BIG!

Is that your mindset when locked in a cell with Big Bubba?

 

[livespive]

Funny, everyone believes in their rights when they work for them.......

But when they can work for another person you do care.

To many of these cases the cops didn't have probable cause.........

I won't even use a black example,

There is the case when the cops were make the WHITE man, and his PREGNNANT wife get on the ground.
He told them he was taking he to the hospital, and they were still acting like fools. They could see she was pregnant.....

It was until the Sargent showed up on the call that everything got fix...

THAT"S BULLSHIT

Like I have said, it is not even really a race thing (although the media will make you think that) it is training.

How long do cops train before they are given a gun and make life or death decisions? NOT LONG ENOUGH.

Come on, dude... If the cop gives you orders to get on the ground- get on the ground. Don't be bull headed and act stupid. Just do it. Why is this so darn difficult for people?

 

[livespive]

OMG!!! spit out my drink

Is that your mindset when locked in a cell with Big Bubba?

 

[Djarum300]

I didn't read all 4 pages of this thread, so I'll chime in knowing that there is the possibility that what I am saying may have been covered before now.

There is a woeful issue in policing where training is concerned. First is in the hand-to-hand element of confronting a suspect. One of my dojo training partners is chief of police in a town about 90 minutes from us. He runs his own MA school in the area. He is holding FREE training for police to help cover the hand-to-hand element. One of my instructors drove down yesterday to help teach the class. He was astounded by the degree to which police have NOT been trained to manage aggressive threats. He played the role of an aggressive suspect being handcuffed; he said the only reason he didn't end up handcuffing the officer was because the officer threw the handcuffs across the room. Zero skills in this area for police.

Second is the level of training police receive with their weapons. Because so many of them have such little unconscious competence with their service weapons, they are too quick to shoot when a situation gets tense. Sure, some officers go to the range and shoot at static paper targets, but 1) they have to pay for the training themselves and 2) paper targets are no substitute for tactical shooting on an outdoor range. Any training that does cover simulated live situations is usually cost prohibitive.

I don't blame police. Their job is harder than the average citizen can begin to understand, then they have to deal with every decision they make being shredded in the public sphere.

So what happened in Tulsa? Did the officer overreact? Did she mistake the service weapon in her hand for her taser (it's happened before - in Tulsa)? Was her training insufficient to give her a degree of unconscious competence in this situation?

The likely answer is likely 'yes' to all of those questions.

What I find interesting is that just a few years ago many of the complainers about police becoming too militarized now wonder how come the military has better close combat training. Can't have both. If we want better trained police then we need to spend more in the training, including military style close proximity combat.