Thoughts on Charleston and liberal apologists...

[Djarum300]

You don't need it. You don't want it. But you're not everyone in the South. And I can promise you that people who fly that flag are more concerned with Southern Pride and not slavery.

Racism today is different than slavery. And many who fly it down here in 'bama are racists. I'm sure there are a few who fly it for heritage or southern pride, but I don't think thats the majority.

 

[WAMO]

I AM NO HISTORY BUFF, BUT I DO NOT REMEMBER HEARING OF A CONFEDERATE SOLDIER MARCHING INTO POLAND AND TELLING THEM YOU WILL HAVE SLAVES OR ELSE.

 

[Djarum300]

I quoted this post, but it goes to a lot of what was written. This was why I brought up the Nazi Flag. You're not German are you Scolai? Many fly that flag not as a sign of hate but as a sign of German pride. We must everyone accept that that flag is all about hate. Believe it or not there are fine well adjusted people who see that flag as a symbol of German pride and heritage - a representation of what it means to be German.

But NO!! We must ALL conform to one side of the argument - the least accommodating and most aggressive side. There is no room to accept that not everyone who flies a Nazi Flag is full of hate.

Sounds kind of dumb in this regard doesn't it...so why is it ok with Confederate Flag. There are many who find that flag offensive, just as many find the Nazi Flag offensive. I don't see people, other than the white supremacists arguing about flying that flag. It represents slavery and the fact that people went to war, decided they would kill their fellow Americans in order to continue to OWN other people. This isn't about being PC, this is about respect. Respect the fact that this flag was born, was created to be symbol of those people who wanted to continue to call African-Americans property and not people. Just like we should respect the disgust of someone of Jewish heritage toward the Nazi Flag. You can say those that fly it don't harbor racism or hate...and that maybe 100% true....but that doesn't mean they can fly a flag that does represent those things.

Its all in the eye of the beholder. Why does the N word have so much power? Because people let it. Heck, I was having a face book discussion about the word "cunt". Many people think its a terrible word to use, but at the end of the day, its just another word describing female genitalia. So why does that word have so much power? Because society lets it have that power. How many years is it going to take? 200? 500?

 

[WAMO]

WELL SAID DJ. WELL SAID.
I HEAR THE "N" WORD USED BY MORE BLACKS THAN WHITES NOW DAYS. AND WHEN I ASKED THEM WHY, OH IT MEANS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO US. BUT IT STILL PERPETUATES THE WORD.

 

[livespive]

The C word and the N word are not the same. The C word does not have the same history.
And like RealJorge300 said "This was why I brought up the Nazi Flag. You're not German are you Scolai? Many fly that flag not as a sign of hate but as a sign of German pride." There is good and bad in these flags. Even not looking at the slavery, the confederate flag is also about GOD, what does Scolai think about that, as I believe he is Wiccan, and I am quite sure there are southern atheist, although they might be in the minority.

Its all in the eye of the beholder. Why does the N word have so much power? Because people let it. Heck, I was having a face book discussion about the word "cunt". Many people think its a terrible word to use, but at the end of the day, its just another word describing female genitalia. So why does that word have so much power? Because society lets it have that power. How many years is it going to take? 200? 500?

 

[Greg T.]

The C word and the N word are not the same. The C word does not have the same history.
And like RealJorge300 said "This was why I brought up the Nazi Flag. You're not German are you Scolai? Many fly that flag not as a sign of hate but as a sign of German pride." There is good and bad in these flags. Even not looking at the slavery, the confederate flag is also about GOD, what does Scolai think about that, as I believe he is Wiccan, and I am quite sure there are southern atheist, although they might be in the minority.

There may be a few that will fly the Nazi flag in the name of Germany, but I can guaranty you that 99.9999% of Germans will NOT be proud of the Nazis or their flag. Anyone flying the Nazi flag is a fucking Nazi, and does not promote nor share the pride the Germans take in their country. The vast majority of Germans despised the Nazis and most had no way of leaving. My
grandmother was a full blown German and managed to escape Germany just as the National Socialist German Workers' Party was coming to power. She paid attention and saw the light just in time to get the hell out before Hitler began to Seize the country and population. Yes, she was extremely proud of her country, but hated and despised everything the Nazis stood for. The Nazi flag is a flag of dominance, power and defiance. I know of no Germans who would be proud to fly that flag.

 

[livespive]

Glad she got out.

There may be a few that will fly the Nazi flag in the name of Germany, but I can guaranty you that 99.9999% of Germans will NOT be proud of the Nazis or their flag. Anyone flying the Nazi flag is a fucking Nazi, and does not promote nor share the pride the Germans take in their country. The vast majority of Germans despised the Nazis and most had no way of leaving. My
grandmother was a full blown German and managed to escape Germany just as the National Socialist German Workers' Party was coming to power. She paid attention and saw the light just in time to get the hell out before Hitler began to Seize the country and population. Yes, she was extremely proud of her country, but hated and despised everything the Nazis stood for. The Nazi flag is a flag of dominance, power and defiance. I know of no Germans who would be proud to fly that flag.

 

[WAMO]

YOU GOT IT G! TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS.

 

[9andaWiggle]

The C word and the N word are not the same. The C word does not have the same history.

I kinda disagree on the history part being important, in that the thoughts and intended consequence of using hurtful language isn't made better or worse due to the history of the words used. Is hate any less hateful based solely on word choice when the ultimate message is the same?

 

[livespive]

That would depend on if you had it happen to you, or have known someone that has.

With that being said I Kinda agree with you

I kinda disagree on the history part being important, in that the thoughts and intended consequence of using hurtful language isn't made better or worse due to the history of the words used. Is hate any less hateful based solely on word choice when the ultimate message is the same?

 

[Djarum300]

The C word and the N word are not the same. The C word does not have the same history.
And like RealJorge300 said "This was why I brought up the Nazi Flag. You're not German are you Scolai? Many fly that flag not as a sign of hate but as a sign of German pride." There is good and bad in these flags. Even not looking at the slavery, the confederate flag is also about GOD, what does Scolai think about that, as I believe he is Wiccan, and I am quite sure there are southern atheist, although they might be in the minority.

IMHO history has little to do with it, but we can go there. The N word came from the word Negro or latin Niger used in slave trade in the early 1600's. The word was used to describe the skin color. Just as the word Caucasian was first originally used to describe the people of Europe versus those of Mongaloid decent. The word itself didn't take on a negative connotation until sometime after the 1800s. The word cunt has been around since the early 1300s, and was used as merely a description of female genetalia. At some point it became derogatory, because even Shakespeare had trouble using the word directly.

So, do words become offensive because someone first finds it offensive or is it offensive because others start using it as slang or in an offensive manner? I do know that if someone is trying to use an offensive word toward someone else and that person doesn't find it offensive, usually those same people stop using the word.

 

[livespive]

So then if a word is just a word, do you let your kids cuss? They are just words.

IMHO history has little to do with it, but we can go there. The N word came from the word Negro or latin Niger used in slave trade in the early 1600's. The word was used to describe the skin color. Just as the word Caucasian was first originally used to describe the people of Europe versus those of Mongaloid decent. The word itself didn't take on a negative connotation until sometime after the 1800s. The word cunt has been around since the early 1300s, and was used as merely a description of female genetalia. At some point it became derogatory, because even Shakespeare had trouble using the word directly.

So, do words become offensive because someone first finds it offensive or is it offensive because others start using it as slang or in an offensive manner? I do know that if someone is trying to use an offensive word toward someone else and that person doesn't find it offensive, usually those same people stop using the word.

 

[9andaWiggle]

Actually, that's a thought I've had about some words before. Why would you punish a child for saying "shit", but not for saying "poop"? Both words describe the same physical thing. Personally, I think it's silly to get hung up on such trivial things.

I mean, whether your kid says "I'm about to poop my pants", or "I'm about to shit my pants", you know exactly what's about to happen. No difference, except one word is inexplicably deemed less appropriate than the other.

 

[Djarum300]

Actually, that's a thought I've had about some words before. Why would you punish a child for saying "shit", but not for saying "poop"? Both words describe the same physical thing. Personally, I think it's silly to get hung up on such trivial things.

I mean, whether your kid says "I'm about to poop my pants", or "I'm about to shit my pants", you know exactly what's about to happen. No difference, except one word is inexplicably deemed less appropriate than the other.

I don't have kids, so its not something I got to worry about, LOL!`

I still think my point is being missed. I was always called fat and tub-o-lard growing up. That stopped when I decided to not give a shit about it. Since I wasn't offended by it anymore, the kids stopped calling me names.

 

[REVerse °]

Actually, that's a thought I've had about some words before. Why would you punish a child for saying "shit", but not for saying "poop"? Both words describe the same physical thing. Personally, I think it's silly to get hung up on such trivial things.

I mean, whether your kid says "I'm about to poop my pants", or "I'm about to shit my pants", you know exactly what's about to happen. No difference, except one word is inexplicably deemed less appropriate than the other.

Hahahaha He called that shit, poop!

 

[Scolai]

I have kids. Those who want to could cuss you a blue streak. I've told them, "They're words. Just remember that audience is important [i.e. don't cuss in front of Grandma] and using such words to incite anger or negative emotions in others is unacceptable."

As for the Nazi bullshit, I think that was handled well by Greg. Let's not forget, however, that the swastika was stolen by the Nazi party and commuted into a symbol of Aryan supremacy.

 

[Djarum300]

I have kids. Those who want to could cuss you a blue streak. I've told them, "They're words. Just remember that audience is important [i.e. don't cuss in front of Grandma] and using such words to incite anger or negative emotions in others is unacceptable."

As for the Nazi bullshit, I think that was handled well by Greg. Let's not forget, however, that the swastika was stolen by the Nazi party and commuted into a symbol of Aryan supremacy.

I also think that its important to note, just like the swastika, that words change meaning over time in relation to the society.

The N Word:

Pre- 1800's - description of "black" people

After 1800s - slang for slaves, the word becomes derogatory after the civil war

Civil Rights era - used by "whites" as an offensive word because they felt that African Americans were somehow lower class citizens. In most cases, unrelated to slavery all together.

In the 90's and afterwards - used by some racists to describe all blacks. In many cases only used to describe "ghetto" or lazy African Americans, similar to "white trash".

 

[Greg T.]

I want to know why some words possess so much power that we DARE whisper them. Seriously. I take issue with having to use the "N" word instead of saying nigger. I take issue with having to say the "C" word instead of cunt. Are we THAT fucking sensitive now that we can't HEAR the words? Is this going to end up like this?: I went to the D word last night and saw a few W words there. They were looking for H word D word so I bought them an B word for good measure. D word B word Lword was time for us to F word so I grabbed a C word and F worded her good.

 

[Scolai]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ LOL ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

 

[WAMO]