Nuclear and EMP threats are far more serious than global warming

AlwaysWrite

Addicted Member
Our national and political leaders need to minimize global warming initiatives and start paying much-needed attention to nuclear and EMP situations. Some of the situations pertaining to global warming aren't likely to affect the planet during any of our lifetimes, but nuclear and/or EMP strikes could come at any time, and certainly long before any of the global warming "problems."

What are we doing to deal with threats of nuclear and EMP attacks?

It's not the same as it was years ago. If a foreign enemy were to launch a military offensive against the U.S. in decades gone by, it would have been easy to repel the attack and defeat the enemy in convincing fashion.

Fast-forward to today's stark realities. When the next us-versus-them military offensive takes place -- and it WILL definitely happen -- it's a virtual cinch that America won't launch the first strike. And that means that the enemy -- be it Russia, Iran or another country -- WILL launch the first strike.

Unfortunately for America, that strike won't consist of guns, tanks and ships. It will be a nuclear strike that won't be easy to counteract. And if that strike were to involve an EMP, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for America to respond because there will be no electricity and, in essence, we'd have our military reduced to using weapons that were available prior to 1900.

If our leaders have any sense, they would take the EMP threat seriously and forget global warming because a nuclear/EMP threat is infinitely more dangerous in the short term.
 

livespive

Well-Known Member
And we thought that was only in the Matrix.....
Like they said the best fiction is based on the truth.

Here in Columbus they are working on EMP tech to stop drones............If they are doing it, you know Big Brother already has it.
 

9andaWiggle

Addicted Member
I don't worry so much about nuclear bombs... seems more likely a hack into a nuclear power facility triggering a meltdown would happen.
 

AlwaysWrite

Addicted Member
I don't worry so much about nuclear bombs... seems more likely a hack into a nuclear power facility triggering a meltdown would happen.
... but are you aware that an EMP strike -- approximately 20 miles up, over the central part of the U.S. -- would/could completely fry our electrical grid and take us back more than a century (with none of our electrical-related items becoming useless)?

Nations such as China are working frantically to protect against an EMP strike, but our leaders -- including Barack Hussein Obama -- are far more concerned with global warming.
 

9andaWiggle

Addicted Member
I would argue that our infrastructure is almost degraded back a century as it is.

But you're right. That would be quite catastrophic.
 

AlwaysWrite

Addicted Member
I would argue that our infrastructure is almost degraded back a century as it is.

But you're right. That would be quite catastrophic.
A successful EMP strike would lead to MANY almost-immediate deaths, as life-support machines wouldn't work, people would be unable to get their medications, many food items would rot (and there would be extremely limited ways to distribute food, anyway), and mass looting and violence would break out.
 

9andaWiggle

Addicted Member
You know, people talk about Trump controlling the Big Red Button, yet nobody is concerned about heartless Hillary controlling it. She has already shown how little our own soldiers' lives mean to her, and more people have mysteriously vanished during Clinton investigations, so what makes anyone think she'd have any more restraint than Donald? If anything, she scares me more than Trump. He's just a loud-mouth egomaniac. Hillary is psycho and just plain evil.
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
You know, people talk about Trump controlling the Big Red Button
Fuck yes I do, and that's a legit concern.

yet nobody is concerned about heartless Hillary controlling it.
Well, to be fair I do think it's a legitimate concern...Donald w/the Nuke codes. I fully realize it's of no concern to you, but it IS to a LOT of people. There's a certain decorum that comes with the Presidential territory. That's a separate issue than Hillary.

She has already shown how little our own soldiers' lives mean to her
I can see where you're coming from

so what makes anyone think she'd have any more restraint than Donald? If anything, she scares me more than Trump. He's just a loud-mouth egomaniac. Hillary is psycho and just plain evil.
I don't want a loud-mouthed schmuck for president. The issue, for me, with Hillary is that she is a big fan of the unilateral military action / regime change school and not as much of the diplomacy/war as a last resort politician. That to me is a legitimate concern. Regime change foreign policy de-stabilizes regions.
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
Keep in mind I'm not a Trump OR Clinton supporter. So ultimately, I have reasonable objections with both candidates. I am not biased w/regards to either candidate, nor with either receive my vote. I will be 3rd party this year unless Bernie wins (very unlikely).
 

AlwaysWrite

Addicted Member
China, Russia and possibly one or two other countries are already capable of mounting cyberattacks that would shut down the U.S. electrical grid, and the possibility of such cyberattacks by U.S. adversaries is known but such information has never been distributed to the public.

We probably could intercept and cripple an ESP-carrying missile if it came from the east or the west, but if it came from the north or south -- over one of the earth's poles -- it would be almost impossible to detect and intercept before the damage was done.

So again, why is global warming such a strong priority while the EMP threat isn't? We could deal with slow-moving changes in global warming, but there's no way to deal effectively with an EMP strike.
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
http://www.vice.com/read/we-asked-a-military-expert-how-scared-the-us-should-be-of-an-emp-attack-508

PER ARTICLE:

"So how scared should we be? I wasn't sure, so I contacted a military analyst at the global intelligence firm Stratfor, the exquisitely named Sim Tack, to find out if we all need to buy EMP-proof iPhone cases, or whether EMPs are something we can put off studying until Skynet comes online.

VICE: First thing's first: Is an EMP a real weapon?
Sim Tack:
It's not a work of fiction. It's an actual technology that exists. It's being played with in some capacity, and will potentially play a much greater role in future warfare. With the increasing importance of electronic circuits on the battlefield... There's only more and more reason to create weapons that specifically target networking ability and electronics dependence.

Has the US entertained the idea of making EMP weapons?
Yes. That's definitely something the US has looked into. EMPs were recognized as an effect of using nuclear weapons during test launches in the sixties. As with any type of natural force that is discovered, it became, "Hey, we can actually try and harness this power for military means."

And have other countries built them?
Different countries have experimented with EMPs. Russia has. There was some stuff in the media recently about North Korea getting some EMP technology from Russia, although that technology is somewhat limited. But the general idea of using EMPs in warfare? That's not just limited to the US.

Will a real EMP weapon work like the ones in The Matrix?
Well, an EMP overloads whatever weak circuits it can manage to overload, and basically destroys them, requiring that they be replaced by new electronic components to make that system functional again.

Right. And meanwhile in The Matrix it seems like the systems come back after a while.
That could potentially be what happens with hardened systems. Those might have the capacity to absorb an EMP, or work their way through that surge, and be operational again.

How might someone do serious damage with one right now?
You might spend a ton of money and time generating an EMP near a power plant. But—for instance—placing some explosives on the power lines coming out of that power plant would be a lot easier, a lot less complex, and a lot cheaper than building that EMP weapon.

What would be an example of this "future warfare" you speak of, where EMPs might come into play?
The US has not really been focusing the development of its military capability on peer-to-peer conflict per se, so from that point of view, it hasn't been the main priority. If you look at the conflict in Eastern Ukraine... One of the things that's been interesting to see there was how the electronic element of warfare has played out.

So to be clear, the Ukraine-Russia conflict doesn't involve EMPs, but it's an example of a modern conflict that might have a use for them? How so?
[The Russians] started to jam Ukrainian communications, and tap into [them]. They started to jam the operations of drones that were observing the separatists and the Russians. Then as a countermovement, the Ukrainians have had to look into getting drones that are more hardened against jamming. At the same time they've had to try and restructure their communications, and tried to keep their combatants from using cell phones.

So EMPs might come into play when two very developed countries go to war?
Yes, and Eastern Ukraine is just a blip on the radar... Imagine the importance of that kind of time to disrupt the network-centric warfare of your enemy in actual warfare.

Do functioning standalone EMP weapons already exist?
I know that [the US has] built prototypes, and used those devices to test the hardening of other devices, so that they don't have to set off a nuclear explosion to test circuits against EMPs. Of course, those prototypes and test devices aren't in a format that you can simply drop over an enemy city tomorrow.

So I shouldn't be worried about Al Qaeda using one to knock out the power grid? Paul Singer seems to think I should.
It's not that EMPs are not a threat. It's just that—although the effect would be massive—currently they're not really a risk apart from nuclear strikes, so highlighting them as the greatest threat there is might not be entirely realistic.

But I've seen videos of people making them at home...
When we're talking about realistic versus unrealistic threats, currently generating an EMP with a nuclear weapon is the most feasible way to do it. Homebuilt EMP weapons aren't very feasible. The cost you would put into building such a system versus the benefit that you would actually gain is very, very impaired.

What's the main challenge stopping small militaries from using them?
Besides the weight, and the cost of whatever you use to generate that kind of electricity—a capacitor, a large amount of batteries, or whatever power generation method—the cost would be so high, but the damage you can do with it would be so limited, that other much cheaper methods might be more efficient when it comes to damaging the area that you're targeting.

OK, let's talk about how to defend ourselves from these things. What's "hardening"?
Hardening is designing electronic circuits to deal with the sudden power surge that comes from an EMP. That in some cases means using thicker, heavier conductors, or creating redundant circuits, or avoiding using sensitive elements within the circuit.

And how would I "harden" my electronics?
Basically, it's the same as protecting a circuit from power surges, but you're dealing with the fact that this kind of power surge affects every part of the circuit, rather than entering the circuit at one certain point.

And you really think we're likely to see the kind of warfare that would involve this kind of thing?
Well, we haven't reached Francis Fukuyama's "End of History" just yet.
 

Djarum300

Addicted Member
When I was with my previous company we dealt with electronic noise all the time. Much of the noise is caused simply be small magnetic fields on a PCB. It used to be most electronics were driven by 5 volt signals. The 3.3v then 1.5v. I've seen where magnetics from a high speed data bus interfere with simple DDR read and write instructions. So it doesn't take much.
 

livespive

Well-Known Member
Right. And meanwhile in The Matrix it seems like the systems come back after a while.
That could potentially be what happens with hardened systems. Those might have the capacity to absorb an EMP, or work their way through that surge, and be operational again.

Trust me, this is already here.

And how would I "harden" my electronics?
Basically, it's the same as protecting a circuit from power surges, but you're dealing with the fact that this kind of power surge affects every part of the circuit, rather than entering the circuit at one certain point.

This is true as well, the key is to have back up systems that are offline but ready to go online.
In the case of hospitals Generator, and UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) systems are installed now,
but would need to be redundant and offline so as not to be damaged by the blast. The primary Generator and UPS systems typically run on standby so they have some sort of power going to them.
 

Djarum300

Addicted Member
If the emp was strong enough, even non-powered electronics could be affected.

Honestly though, I worry more about bombs or natural disasters hitting power plants more than an emp. Ef5 tornado took out the main lines out of a nuclear plant and a third of Alabama was without power. Imagine that happening to NYC, La, or Chicago?
 

livespive

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I know what you mean. Also if the nuke plants go without power, don't they go into meltdown because of lack of cooling?

If the emp was strong enough, even non-powered electronics could be affected.

Honestly though, I worry more about bombs or natural disasters hitting power plants more than an emp. Ef5 tornado took out the main lines out of a nuclear plant and a third of Alabama was without power. Imagine that happening to NYC, La, or Chicago?
 
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