The elephant in the room; discussion
- Thread starter 9andaWiggle
- Start date
I BELIEVE MY PART IN THIS DEBATE HAS BEEN AIMED AT ELIMINATING GUNS IN THOSE SCHOOLS, NOT THROWING MORE GUNS INTO THEM. WHAT ARE THE 3 MOST COMMON ISSUES WITH GUN VIOLENCE. 1, MENTAL ILLNESS. 2, GUNS. 3, PEOPLE. CANT ELIMINATE MENTAL ILLNESS, CANT ELIMINATE GUNS, SO...ELIMINATE PEOPLE. LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE, CLOSE ALL SCHOOLS, THEATERS, CHURCHES, CONCERTS, ETC... THEN THEY WOULD ALL BE IN THEIR HOUSES BEING HOME SCHOOLED, READING THE BIBLE, WATCHING YOU TUBE, LISTENING TO CD'S. LOCKED BEHIND DOORS WITH THEIR GUNS AT THE READY. THEN THERE WOULD BE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. RIGHT?
sevenpin63
Addicted Member
WAMO you can't be serious
Yeah, Seven, he's serious. We've been thru this before. All I can do is SMH.
WITH SOME HEAVY SARCASM, YES. GUNS WOULD BE THE ONLY FEASABLE AND LOGICAL ELIMINATION, BUT, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. WHAT G, NO FACE PALM?
Sorry. With the risk of sounding redundant, killers will kill regardless of the tool. If someone wants to kill someone, the lack of a gun will not stop them. 3000 people were killed on 9/11 and not one shot was fired. The unabomber never fired a shot. 700,000 babies are killed every year just in the U.S. and not one shot is fired. Australia took nearly all the guns away and their violent crime did NOT decrease, in fact, rapes have increased. The U.K. has outlawed guns unless you meet specific criteria, and their violent crime has not decreased. In fact, death by stabbing is way the fuck up, and rapes are rampant. I could go on and on but it would do not good. The stats are all out there for you to see, if you really cared to know the truth.
HAVNT SEEN A BOMB OR A PLANE GO OFF IN A SCHOOL. OR 17 KIDS STABBED TO DEATH IN A SCHOOL...YET. GUNS ARE THE HOT TOPIC OF THE DAY, AND HOW OUR KIDS ARE BEING KILLED WITH THEM. IF THOSE OTHER ISSUES TAKE PLACE, I GUESS WE WILL BE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THAT TOPIC ALSO. IM JUST TIRED OF SEEING OUR KIDS GET KILLED. NOW THAT TRUMPS EARS ARE UP (ALONG WITH HIS HAIR...HAHAHA), AND THERE IS ANOTHER SCHOOL SHOOTING SOON, THERE WILL BE STIFFER GUN LAWS! FOR SURE. AND LIKE YOU SAID, KILLERS WILL KILL. SO WE PROBABLY WONT HAVE TO WAIT LONG FOR ANOTHER SCHOOL SHOOTING.
Scolai
Active Member
My contention is that we need to train teachers in effective classroom defensive procedures. Gross motor defensive movements and effective classroom design coupled with a bit of training in just how our bodies react to stress (Code White --> Code Black) and how to mitigate those effects will do more to help teachers and students get through these sorts of events.
We need to address the current model of Run-Hide-Fight as ineffective. Too many students (upwards of 90% of them) are killed from a position of hiding. If we could make the model Run-Fight while addressing the need to take cover as necessary, we could start to reduce the numbers of victims. After all, a moving target is a lot harder to hit than someone crouched under a desk.
What's worse are the widely-used classroom protocols that require teachers to cram all of their students into corners and closets to hide. In the event they are discovered, the death toll can be mind-numbing. At Sandy Hook, for example, 15 students and two teachers were killed when the shooter broke through a locked classroom door and found the group hiding in the bathroom. In a nearby classroom (Victoria Soto's room), students ran from the room when the shooter came in. As the shooter was distracted by the teacher, who jumped between him and her students, most of the children got out of the room to safety. Five students and Soto herself were killed. Eleven others survived.
Here's what we need to do: give teachers a realistic plan to protect themselves and their students, train them in that plan, and then give them unfettered permission to execute the plan when it is necessary. Expecting them to hole up and wait for first responders (who have an average response time of eight minutes) is signing their death warrants. We have to train the REAL first responders - the teachers. Failing to do that will result in more dead bodies.
We need to address the current model of Run-Hide-Fight as ineffective. Too many students (upwards of 90% of them) are killed from a position of hiding. If we could make the model Run-Fight while addressing the need to take cover as necessary, we could start to reduce the numbers of victims. After all, a moving target is a lot harder to hit than someone crouched under a desk.
What's worse are the widely-used classroom protocols that require teachers to cram all of their students into corners and closets to hide. In the event they are discovered, the death toll can be mind-numbing. At Sandy Hook, for example, 15 students and two teachers were killed when the shooter broke through a locked classroom door and found the group hiding in the bathroom. In a nearby classroom (Victoria Soto's room), students ran from the room when the shooter came in. As the shooter was distracted by the teacher, who jumped between him and her students, most of the children got out of the room to safety. Five students and Soto herself were killed. Eleven others survived.
Here's what we need to do: give teachers a realistic plan to protect themselves and their students, train them in that plan, and then give them unfettered permission to execute the plan when it is necessary. Expecting them to hole up and wait for first responders (who have an average response time of eight minutes) is signing their death warrants. We have to train the REAL first responders - the teachers. Failing to do that will result in more dead bodies.
This country’s addiction to gun powder is far more of a concern to me than it opioid addiction. I too have become immune to these stories because time and time again something or someone could have been stopped but wasn’t and nothing is done to prevent the next one.
It's got nothing to do with gun powder. The lack of security in schools and other facilities is not related to firearms. It is what it is. ...Lack of security and complete failure in the operations of the FBI and local law enforcement. When hunting witches becomes more important than protecting our young, you know the fucking system has failed.
LISTEN TO WHAT YOU SAID G. ARMED GUARDS IN SCHOOLS AND OTHER FACILITIES? YOUR ADVOCATING FOR SOMETHING YOU HAVE SAID YOU NEVER WANT TO HAPPEN...A POLICE STATE! THINK ABOUT THIS, 20 ARMED GUARDS AT EVERY SCHOOL. NOONE ENTERS THE BUILDING WITH WEAPONS. 3:30 BELL RINGS. 100'S OF KIDS HEAD OUT THE DOOR. SOME CLOWN PARKED IN LINE WITH THE MINI VAN MOMS. JUMPS OUT OF HIS CAR AND STARTS FIRING. HOW MANY KIDS GO DOWN BEFORE THEY TAKE HIM DOWN. AND HOW MANY KIDS GET CAUGHT UP BETWEEN THE GUARDS AND BAD GUY? I DO AGREE WITH THE LAW ENFOREMENT THING! THEY AND OUR GOVERNMENT ARE THE ONES WHO DONT SEEM TO CARE ABOUT OUR KIDS.
School security is now a police state????? I can't even begin to explain how fucked up that is...
Greg is right.....
I graduated HS in 1991. By that time our school had metal detectors. We didn't have shootings back then,
but I do remember a girl bringing a meat cleaver into school once.
If you look back at the last 3 shootings at least, there were warnings/signs/flags that should have either prevented the person
from getting a gun, initiated an investigation, but nothing was done.........
I would rather have my own gun and take care of myself, then to wait on protection that may or may not engage the enemy, or take to long to get here.
I graduated HS in 1991. By that time our school had metal detectors. We didn't have shootings back then,
but I do remember a girl bringing a meat cleaver into school once.
If you look back at the last 3 shootings at least, there were warnings/signs/flags that should have either prevented the person
from getting a gun, initiated an investigation, but nothing was done.........
I would rather have my own gun and take care of myself, then to wait on protection that may or may not engage the enemy, or take to long to get here.
Even tho I tested out two years early, my class is class of 72, and we had open doors, open campus and never a problem. Everyone here has guns..we're fucking yoopers!!! 75% of the vehicles in the school lots are pickups, and back in the day they had gun racks in the back windows. Yes, and they had guns in them. Today is a bit different with all the shit coming down, after all, we ARE a blue state. But the vast majority of people here are gun owners, hunters and concealed carriers. In fact, the first day of deer season here is a holiday. No school! But, to get to the point, I still carry my protection on school grounds during my grandkids' activities and such. One person showed concern and I told them straight out that if something happened and I was able to stop a mad fucker, I'd sit down, surrender and let the cops figure it out. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.