Know Your Positive Axis Point

[tony]

By Mike Austin
Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX

A common problem that I see in the pro shop with my customers is how different bowlers describe different layouts. Too many bowlers use the grip as a reference point for how to layout a bowling ball. Many times a customer will ask me to “Put the pin over my ring finger and kick the cg out, I saw Billy’s ball was drilled like this, and it worked well for him. “ This can be a mistake with some of today’s high performance balls with somewhat complicated weight blocks.

The proper reference point is your Positive Axis Point or PAP. When you roll a bowling ball, you roll it on an axis just like how the Earth spins. Most every player’s axis is different. If you have a high track, a roller, your track will be close to your grip, and your PAP will be farther away. If you spin or twirl the ball, like I do, then your track will be lower and farther away from your grip, which brings your PAP closer to your grip. Depending on how YOU spin the ball will determine where your PAP is. There is no right or wrong here, just different.

The distance the pin is from your PAP is the major concern in laying out a bowling ball. A five inch pin to PAP distance is not going to look the same for everybody, but it will have the same reaction characteristics. I like to use pins five inches from my PAP because that helps me get the ball down the lane with my medium ball speed. But, because my track is also low (PAP is 4 9/16 over and ¾ up from the center of my grip), the pin will end up on the left side of my grip, over or under my middle finger. Some bowlers call this a “negative pin”, there really isn’t such a thing, but the pin is on the “negative static weight” side of the ball, this misnomer has become common. A higher track player with a five inch pin layout will have the pin over or under the ring finger or even right of the grip.

Finding your PAP is very simple. I like to have my customers throw strike balls with their low flare or spare bowling balls. We put a piece of white tape on the right side of the grip (for right handed players), we keep moving this tape around on the ball until it is solid and completely stationary when the ball is rolling. You can use one of your flaring balls, but the tape needs to be solid as the ball comes off the bowler’s hand. The tape will not stay solid very long, as the weight block begins taking over control of the ball, causing the track to flare, and the piece of tape to wobble or even move all over the ball. It is helpful to have a friend help you with this exercise as the extra set of eyes can see the tape better as the bowling ball is being released. Once you have found the spot on the ball where the tape is stationary, take the ball to your driller and have him record this location information.

With your PAP information, a pro shop Professional will be able to more precisely layout and drill your bowling balls, getting them to do what you want and need them to do. Don’t be afraid to ask your driller to help you find your PAP. They will be glad to help you! (When lanes are available of course!) If your driller tells you they don’t want or need this information, run, and find another driller! Bowling balls are too expensive to have them all do the same thing, you must be able to have variety when designing your bowling ball arsenal.

[tony]

Good job, Mikie!

Anyone got a photo of a ball with their PAP marked? I'd like to add it to this article.

[Butch Cooper]

This a a really great post!

Great article Mike!

[bowl1820]

Here is a link to my Nitro R2. I have a small white dot marking at my PAP.

Click Here (http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w89/aloarjr810/bowlingballs/ebo_nr2_class.jpg)

[Butch Cooper]

Bruns-Nick has a great video of how to find your PAP...

Check it out...

http://www.brunsnick.com/positive_axis_point.html

[MONSTER300]

i thought everyone knew about this already. my pap is 4 3/8 over and 3/8 up from my center of grip.

[Djarum]

I used Brunsnicks way, and it came to 5 1/4 over and 1/2 up. I have a high track, so its expected.


Good Post!

[fastpitch321]

Hello,

I am a new bowler and have become very interested in the sport. I am looking to buy a ball now but I have a few questions about the PAP.

I assume I will bowl with the same PAP regardless of the ball I throw. If this is true does that mean I can find my PAP on any ball, and then use the same measurements for when I get my ball drilled?

Also, what is meant by saying 'without knowing your PAP you are just guessing when you bowl'. Will the ball roll that inconsistently if it is not drilled for my PAP?

I hope I have understood the PAP well up to this point, and if I have not, please do not refrain from telling me otherwise.

Thanks,
Rob

[TheIronMan]

As much as this information has been printed in magazines and on the internet, it is still not enough. I coach bowlers every week who when I ask them what their pap measurements are go....huh? I then ask them if their pro shop guy knows. They say...I don't think so...he just looks at the ball and visualizes where the holes will go and starts drilling. This should be a rare occurence at best, but occurs all too often. Nice job explaining it Mike.

[fastpitch321]

can somebody answer my question please?

[smokeeater033]

Hello,

I am a new bowler and have become very interested in the sport. I am looking to buy a ball now but I have a few questions about the PAP.

I assume I will bowl with the same PAP regardless of the ball I throw. If this is true does that mean I can find my PAP on any ball, and then use the same measurements for when I get my ball drilled?

Also, what is meant by saying 'without knowing your PAP you are just guessing when you bowl'. Will the ball roll that inconsistently if it is not drilled for my PAP?

I hope I have understood the PAP well up to this point, and if I have not, please do not refrain from telling me otherwise.

Thanks,
Rob


Yes Rob you can fine your PAP on any ball you have and you can use that for your new ball.

o the ball will not be inconsistant. You need to know your PAP to have your ball driller place the pin to give you the ball reaction you desire. Example... My PAP is 5 1/4 inches over and 1/2 inch up from the center of grip. If yours is 4 inches over and 1/2 up. I drill a ball with the pin 4 inches from my PAP the ball will roll differently for you than it will for me. Because the pin will be different distance form our respective PAP's.

Hope this helps.

[T-Nonk]

All this technical crap is why I always use the same driller....

[dynorooz]

I've read that if you dont have a consistent release/roll you wont get a very consistent PAP location/measurement; so dont bother with it until youre consistent.

Clean your ball before every shot for a few games or a few weeks and watch where the oil line is when you pick it up. If that oil line is changing location from shot to shot you're not consistent enough to worry about PAP. If youre hitting the pocket and the line is staying in the same location then take the ball to your driller - course I could have read it wrong. ;)

[Up n'Comin HasBeen]

good post

[Cormier]

Alot of great information

[KNIGHT]

Alot of great information

Yea what he said.

[rhgrace3110]

Real easy way to find you PAP is to use and Armadillo axis point locator then use the tape trick.

[kblackmer]

Mike is really great at proshop information and getting the job done right. For sure if your in the area give him a try.

PAP is very important for most bowlers, on the other hand some bowlers can't even throw the ball twcie the same way so really a pap does no good to know. There is a medium layout for everyone that will fit their need. Most of the time all the proshop guy needs to see is the bowlers to throw a few balls and move in the different areas on the approach where they most often use the lane and what they shoot on.
From there the proshop guy if he or she is good enough can layout what you need.

As for me, well My PAP changes because I can use the exact same ball and throw up 2board or stand extreme left and go gutter to gutter. The PAP changes because my release changes and hand position as well. I can create a low track or a high track, low flare or high flare all in the same ball.

once I figured out what my medium was and what I wanted I was able to formulate an answer and put it into equipment. I may have lost you guys on that.:waive:

anyways. good info mike glad to see there is still a couple proshop guys out there who know what their doing.:rockon:

[USMTSfan]

I'm wanting to find my PAP by using the oil track on my old ball. I've been watching the BrunsNick video over & over, there is a step in there that I'm not sure about. It is Step 4, Draw 2 lines perpendicular to the track. The intersection of these lines will be your PAP? How do you know where to draw the 1st line? It looks like the 2nd line is drawn threw where the centerline and midline intersect. So, depending on where you draw the 1st line, the intersection of the 2 lines will change?

Please help....

J. Lackmann

[MoonPie]

Thanks for sharing this Tony. Now can you find my pap!

[johnsland8]

I'm wanting to find my PAP by using the oil track on my old ball. I've been watching the BrunsNick video over & over, there is a step in there that I'm not sure about. It is Step 4, Draw 2 lines perpendicular to the track. The intersection of these lines will be your PAP? How do you know where to draw the 1st line? It looks like the 2nd line is drawn threw where the centerline and midline intersect. So, depending on where you draw the 1st line, the intersection of the 2 lines will change?

Please help....

J. Lackmann

This was my question exactly... I saw it the same way. Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Thanks!

[johnsland8]

This was my question exactly... I saw it the same way. Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Thanks!

I actually found this text from another posting:

From any point on the initial track line, it is the same
distance from this line to the PAP. (unnecessary content removed for brevity) In fact, all lines drawn
perpendicular to the initial track line will intersect at the PAP and be equidistant

[TheIronMan]

I'm wanting to find my PAP by using the oil track on my old ball. I've been watching the BrunsNick video over & over, there is a step in there that I'm not sure about. It is Step 4, Draw 2 lines perpendicular to the track. The intersection of these lines will be your PAP? How do you know where to draw the 1st line? It looks like the 2nd line is drawn threw where the centerline and midline intersect. So, depending on where you draw the 1st line, the intersection of the 2 lines will change?
Please help....J. Lackmann

It doesn't matter where you draw the lines as long as they are perpendicular to the track line toward the positive side. All lines perpendicular to the track will cross in the same place. If you're not quite sure of exactness of what you're doing, then make sure the two lines start 6" or so apart. This should get you real close. But, theoretically, you could draw two perpendicular lines 1/16" apart and where they intersect would be your pap.

[EHammerOK]

It doesn't matter where you draw the lines as long as they are perpendicular to the track line toward the positive side. All lines perpendicular to the track will cross in the same place. If you're not quite sure of exactness of what you're doing, then make sure the two lines start 6" or so apart. This should get you real close. But, theoretically, you could draw two perpendicular lines 1/16" apart and where they intersect would be your pap.

Does this still work if the oil lines curve more on one ball than on another? I have seen some track lines that are no where near normal. They really curve instead of just going from point a to point b. I know this was discussed at an Ebonite seminar, but don't remember all of the discussion.

[TheIronMan]

They don't curve. This is track flair. Use the one nearest the thumbhole.

[EHammerOK]

They don't curve. This is track flair. Use the one nearest the thumbhole.

Um, yes the individual track rings may be curved. If you don't believe me check with Ed G from Ebonite.
Now, I haven't paid enough attention to the first one to see if it is an arc instead of a straighter line, but I believe it can be also.

[ch_flash]

The PAP might not be the same on every ball. But it is important to find it on one ball so your driller can make an educated drilling lay-out and not just guess at it. My driller gave me that look when I started talking about drill and val angles, but he drilled my new balls how they needed, for how I roll them. Education and information is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands/minds.

[Trabue74]

The PAP might not be the same on every ball. But it is important to find it on one ball so your driller can make an educated drilling lay-out and not just guess at it. My driller gave me that look when I started talking about drill and val angles, but he drilled my new balls how they needed, for how I roll them. Education and information is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands/minds.

Your true PAP point is based off of you initial release, so it should not change from ball to ball...

[Bet-A-Buck]

Great post Mike. Not knowing much about today's new balls with so many different weight blocks, RG'S etc. That's why I completly trust your advise. As soon I can afford a new ball, headed your way,lol. Jack......Simmons